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jawgeeb

193rwkw on t25? Is it possible

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Hey everyone... (before i start just thought id let u all know that im at work and as soon as i get home ill post up the dyno sheet)

 

ALSO Firstly Here's the list of mods:

*Hybrid FMIC

*Full Exhaust with GK-Tech Split Dump Pipe

*Walbro Fuel Pump

*Sard Fuel Pressure Regulator

*GReddy Profec B II Boost Controller

*Apexi Power FC

*K&N POD

*RUNNING STOCK INJECTORS, STOCK AFM & STOCK BOV...

 

Basically to cut the long story short, i hit 193rwkw on my stock turbo... At first the tuner told me there is now way a t25 could push that power and told me that it must have a t28 in there (non ball bearing)... So obviously i took his word and believed and so on... I then asked around and everyone was certain that 98 type-X 180's came out with only t25's... So with that in mind i was stuck in the middle tryin to figure out what the hell was goin on... So i then took it back to the tuner to find out what the deal was and told him the story.. He was excited and shocked at the same time... So he asked if he could pull out the turbo and check to see whether on not it was a t25 or t28 (i dont know how he checked but he did) i left it with him for a bit and then came back, when he saw me he was puzzled and looked at me and said it's a t25... He was surprised and so was i.... i hit 193rwkw on 17psi... But that's not all that was surpising. Basically on high boost the car is losing boost at high RPM and dropping to about 11psi... That's a 6psi loss on top end... He told me also once that issue is fixed and its holds boost that i would easily hit 200rwkw... For a stock t25 i'm pretty damn happy with that reading and so is he... I now want to find the boost drop problem and dyno that baby again...(it seems to lose boost more in 2nd gear then the higher gears, eg. 3rd and 4th only loses about 3-4psi)

 

The car has been running on this tune and power for months... The car runs fine and never had a hickup... Knock reading etc are all fine and have been for months... FIRSTLY WAT I WANTED TO ASK IS, DO ANY OF YOU KNOW WHAT IS CAUSING THE BOOST DROP... Also i know most of u will say it's bullshi^% but i promise u i aint spitting crap and ARE YOU SURPRISED AT THE DYNO READING??? Also considering that there is more space for more power once the boost drop issue is fixed...

 

I want to have the boost drop issue fixed asap so i can get another dyno and see what power figures i am hitting... (tried changing the BOV thought it might be leaking but that hasnt fixed the issue... any ideas??)

 

some more info... when i first bought the car (ABSOLUTELY STOCK) i hit 134rwkw... I posted up a thread and a dyno sheet which cause a-bit of HAVIC...lol... I had the dyno done and 2 different places... Had them run in SHOOTOUT mode as well.. Also just had in run not on SHOOTOUT mode.... (without shootout mode the reading was higher) I was told and know from experience that SHOOTOUT mode is the most accurate... We dyno ran it plenty of times and it consitently hit that power figure...

 

ANy answers to these puzzles will be greatly appreciated....

 

Thanks Everyone...

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No offence, but sounds like bullsh!t to me.......Running stock injectors and afm jus dont cut the cheese

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Always been told that a t25 is only good for max of 15psi and even that is pushing the limits for it, and you would be risking damage to it .. most say better to run 12-13-14 at most.. others also say its rediculous to run it so much over, because its out of its efficiency range.. but hey correct me if im wrong anyone?

I have a boost problem myself, but thinking its coilpacks at this stage, as it only happens after about 20mins of driving.. drop from 13psi to 8psi..

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No offence, but sounds like bullsh!t to me.......Running stock injectors and afm jus dont cut the cheese

 

It's not champ.. i didn't post this up to B.S. Ill post up the dyno sheet 2nite to show ya... Trust me man i got more important things to do then write up a big thread filled with B.S. (max that the injector duty cycle hit was 90, Tuner said that it's no prob, and only to have considered upgrade if it had hit 95)

 

Always been told that a t25 is only good for max of 15psi and even that is pushing the limits for it, and you would be risking damage to it .. most say better to run 12-13-14 at most.. others also say its rediculous to run it so much over, because its out of its efficiency range.. but hey correct me if im wrong anyone?

I have a boost problem myself, but thinking its coilpacks at this stage, as it only happens after about 20mins of driving.. drop from 13psi to 8psi..

 

The turbo has a steel wheel not ceramic wheel... It can run 17psi without no probs... Well it has been for me anyways... got a mate running 16psi on his t25 and no probs at all... But keep in mind i aint fanging it all day.. i run it on low boost which is set at 9psi, only run high when i wanna give it a hit. NEVA had any probs on 17psi... it's been runnin that for a while man...

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for a comparison:

 

my S13 runs 16psi (standard turbo t25) , mods include Blitz FMIC, Bosch 040fuel pump, apexi powerfc, k&n airfilter, 3" dump pipe/front pipe, 2 1/2" cat back exhaust, jjr pro cooling radiator (40mm)

 

power: 163rwk @5597rpm

 

tuned by protekautomotive in preston VIC (dyno sheet to prove)

 

^^ but as you can see, its on 16psi, standard turbo and makes 163kw at the wheels... and its got no chance of doing much better without a bigger turbo

 

 

in regards to the vehicle being able to sustain 16psi and remain healthy, i say.. it can, and will. bear in mind when a car creates boost the turbo will never hold the maximum set boost (with a bleed valve) for any longer then a second. it will boost, hit max, and drop down dramatically.. howber by this time the gear would have been changed and the process begins all over again

 

 

 

GL

 

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I would say the tuners dyno is out big time. If you said you had injectors and afm then i would believe that figure but no way you could make that with stock injectors and afm

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I understand that YOU are not talkin sh!t dude, your just stating what you have been told and showed by this tuner. Which is fair enough

 

Although

 

Im just stating that it is near impossible for that setup with standard injectors and afm and t25 turbo to be pulling this power figure truthfully...

 

Thats all.........but hey, weirder things have happened.......maybe..

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I would say the tuners dyno is out big time. If you said you had injectors and afm then i would believe that figure but no way you could make that with stock injectors and afm

 

as i stated in the thread i had it dyno'd at different places, all hitting the same figure... Ran is normal and in shootout mode... The dyno's weren't out (especially considering that it was dyno'd at 3 different places and all hitting the same figure)...

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Why does everyone think that modifying cars is an exact science?

 

btw

 

I call BS :ph34r:

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steel wheel means t25g. your not suppposed to exceed 16psi on them and that is not for dily use either. there is no way that its getting that much power. if it really is im happy for ya dude but i dont think it would be. im not saying ur talking bs but te dudes dyno is probably fuked. DRKJET they are the kind of results that u get with a t25g.

 

It's been runnin fine on 17psi for months and no probs... He has tuned many 180's lots of them running high boost.. They can see everything thats happening with their equipment... If there was a problem he wouldnt have nothced the boost up... As i stated before the dyno's arent out.. Been dyno'd at different places & shootout mode and etc and same results.. The theory of the dyno reading being inaccurate has already been ruled out... Thats the first thing i though but that's not the case...

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Why does everyone think that modifying cars is an exact science?

 

btw

 

I call BS :ph34r:

 

LOL... thats fine... i knew this would happen..lol..

 

AS I SAID, when i get home from work i'll post up the dyno sheet, hopefully that's enough proof for u...

 

DAMN, ill go and dyno it and video tape it to prove that i aint B.S-ing...lol..

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Don't worry man... stop chasing numbers... I mean... going on two different dyno's? WHY? Filming the dyno to prove your power figure? Wouldn't work... but are you after performance or do you just want to compare cocks?

 

and you totally overlooked my point...

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Don't worry man... stop chasing numbers... I mean... going on two different dyno's? WHY? Filming the dyno to prove your power figure? Wouldn't work... but are you after performance or do you just want to compare cocks?

 

and you totally overlooked my point...

 

HMMM Relax dude.. I get your point but your point isn't answering my question... I knwo what you mean but that dosen't explain what's happening... TO ME MAN IF I CAN GET MORE POWER ANY WAY I CAN THEN THATS WHAT IM GONNA DO... If i wanna dyno it places to be 100% sure on the reading i dont see no prob with that... i'm obviously spending money on it to get the best outta it so why not double check & go into detail with everything that i believe matters... Obviously im after power so i gotta chase it and fix the problem, not just accept the wrongs and continue on with it...

 

Cheers... (but i do see your point, and for what it's worth it's a good point)

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A mates s14 made 193rwkw last week on the stock turbo.

 

it got a haltech, 740cc injectors, bosch o44 pump, 3" turbo back exhaust, hybrid cooler and a pod.

 

the 193 was on 16psi

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Don't worry man... stop chasing numbers... I mean... going on two different dyno's? WHY? Filming the dyno to prove your power figure? Wouldn't work... but are you after performance or do you just want to compare cocks?

 

and you totally overlooked my point...

 

HMMM Relax dude.. I get your point but your point isn't answering my question... I knwo what you mean but that dosen't explain what's happening... TO ME MAN IF I CAN GET MORE POWER ANY WAY I CAN THEN THATS WHAT IM GONNA DO... If i wanna dyno it places to be 100% sure on the reading i dont see no prob with that... i'm obviously spending money on it to get the best outta it so why not double check & go into detail with everything that i believe matters... Obviously im after power so i gotta chase it and fix the problem, not just accept the wrongs and continue on with it...

 

Cheers... (but i do see your point, and for what it's worth it's a good point)

 

Hi There,

 

I haven't been in here for a while but came across this post and seeing as no one was actually offering an answer to your question, I thought I'd drop you a line. Yes it is totally possible to get your car to do this because my 180 had a similar generation setup to you and I was pulling similar figures. Given the right tuning, fuel pressure and boost controller setup it is quite possible... read this - not recommended for extended periods though... and here's why:

 

The reason your boost is dropping off is your turbo can't flow the required rate at high rpm. Your EBC is cycling the wastegate valve to hold the 16psi but the flow is choked by sheer volume after about 6000rpm. You can get around this by playing with your Profec B EBC settings to increase the sensitivity of the boost setting to re-adjust the boost level at higher rpm, but be prepared to spike coming on boost up to about 20psi (which may not be possible without detonation). The other reason this isn't good in the long run is you are constantly working your stock T25 outside it's operating design. You will need a high quality oil and think about a oil cooler to help prolong your turbo. In any case you are going to wear it quickly.

 

I would advise that you could probably push your car even further than it is now, but you are already above a recommended stable and reliable power output figure for you level of mods. Some may disagree with this statement, but I think everyone at some stage has believed that their car was 'special' and was capable of achieving something out of the ordinary.

 

With a few extra bucks you will see a noticable improvement in performance in a reliable fashion instead of choking the living crap outa what you have got for a few extra KW's that will eventually end you up in hot water.

 

Hope this helps :)

 

F U Z

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Dont complain.

 

Just accept.

 

Whoosh!

 

Nah no idea :P

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Take it to the track. Get your trap speed. Get the car weighed as is for racing. Then you can determine what power it is making. You can either compare to other peoples trap speeds. Or you can use a hp calc on the net and then X85% to put it into dyno dynamics figures as they are used for dynojets.

 

Dynos can be made to give different figures depending on what settings are used. The track doesn't lie :)

 

You should trap 111-112mph if you and your car weigh a total of 1280kg and you are making 193rwkw.

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just run it at as high a psi as u can b4 it starts loosing boost, as there no point running higher except for the power figure. sometime a nice wide,circley power curve is bettr. i doubt u should be running a T25 over 16 psi as u'll start going backwards, tho im sure it is possible.

 

^^yeh take it to the track kw's readings are just numbers, track numbers are the real "at the wheels" figures. IMO.

 

your almost at the 200rwkw mark, i guess now just make it sustainable.

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considering i have no real world experience with T25G's and dyno's I can't claim Bullshit or anything like that, nor do i want to

However from alot of reading that i have done, the power output seems above normal with the mods that you have, again not complaining, just stating

 

I'm suprised that you still have a standard AFM, especially since you have an Apexi PFC in your car

injectors, fair enough, dont upgrade until required

 

But, if it was my car, the next thing i'd do is a Z32 AFM and 550cc injectors and a retune of course, spend the money doing that instead of more dyno runs elsewhere, that not necessary

 

It's possible the AFM is a big restriction at high revs, choking the turbo, and once you rectify that, the injectors will max out (or close) so they'll be required to

 

Well done with 193rwkw, might be possible to crack 200rwkw with a T25G, first for everything, and then who's laughing, but as for response/reliabilty, i dont think it's a long term turbo

 

Has the engine ever been rebuilt, by you or previous owner? whats the compression test like? maybe higher comp pistons or shaved head on it?

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Hey Jawqeeb, I have a s14a, with t25, and very similar mods liek urs except i have unichip and u have power fc, everything else same as u, and i got a tuned manifold. I have 192 rwkw. so no bull there. Running 10 and 14psi on low and hi settings.

 

I didnt mod it, the last owner did it all, otherwise i wouldnt put a unichip in.

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you WONT fix the boost problem

 

why do you think they upgraded to T28 in S14's... to hold higher boost...

 

yes, they can ping on 17, 18, 19psi.. but a T25 will never hold that maximum amount of boost.. it will die down to 10-11psi top end, there is nothing you can do to fix it its simply the turbo being too small and not being able to push that much puff

 

same thing happes to me.. turbo peaks at 14psi, dies down to 10psi mid rev range and holds at 10.... dyno proven...

 

sorry champ, i do believe those power figures cause your running stupid boost levels, (yes it can handle it but i wouldnt do it, and im a mechanic)

 

o well gratz on teh power reading mang! :yes:

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What shootout mode was it run up on?

Whats the IT AT temps?

 

All will be shown on the dyno sheet.

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T25G + stock injectors = 193rwkw *HAPPy DYNO*

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Hey everyone,

 

here is the dyno sheet...

 

Thanks "F U Z" that info was heaps helpful, definitely makes alot of sense to me now... Much appreciated...

 

Thanks to everyone else who actually believes me and thinks im not full of it.. HOPEFULLY THIS DYNO SHEET WILL PROOVE IT... makes me feel good knowing that im not the only one who can make that power on those mods and that it is possible as some of you have made similar figures aswell...

 

"chris davey" good idea bout the track... thanks man, ill definitely give that a crack...

 

SORRY TO EVERYONE WHO THINKS THIS IS B.S. but plain and simply it isn't so except it and give me some advice...lol..

 

CHECK OUT THE DYNO SHEET...

 

(on the dyno sheet you'll notice 2 lines, red and blue... the red line is from when i had a turbosmart boost controller.. blue one is when i upgraded to profec b II, we thought the boost loss problem could have come from the controller...)

IMG_5033.jpg

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i would say bullshit aswell but i'm not qualified in this area to make such statements but considering i got a disco spud,fmic,ss man,dump,front,walbro pump i can only make 190rwkw on 15psi with standard injectors and afm(safely) if it is wot it is then good on ya, have fun. btw u still havin a go at me? :huh: i sent u a reply a week ago. :rolleyes:

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may i ask who the tuner is?

 

yeah ofcourse...

 

Paul Fisher... Shop is called Pulse Performance.. It's in Menai...

 

He previously worked at MRT performance & ADVAN & then in the U.S, then he came back to syd and opened his own shop...

 

Apparently he is the SHI%... I know a dozen people who have had their cars tuned and all have big smiles... he's f**k%$ awsome...

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Issue 15 of DB....

 

The main 180sx, still has stock T25G...but ALOT of supporting mods (including Injectors). It doesn't say what boost he is running, but it says it has 185rwkw.

 

So, it is hard to believe that you got over this, with alot less supporting mods.

 

Cheers,

MaTT

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Issue 15 of DB....

 

The main 180sx, still has stock T25G...but ALOT of supporting mods (including Injectors). It doesn't say what boost he is running, but it says it has 185rwkw.

 

So, it is hard to believe that you got over this, with alot less supporting mods.

 

Cheers,

MaTT

 

WHAT???????????

 

it's the same car with the same mods... everything was the same. only thing i changed was the boost controller cause we thought the boost drop issue could have been from not having an electronic boost controller as bleed valves tend not to hold boost as good as electronic boost controllers...

 

i think u got confused.. with the previous controller i hit 185rwkw on 15.5psi... we upgraded the controller to a profec b and ran it at 17psi and hit 193rwkw... all mods same, STOCK INJECTORS, STOCK AFM, STOCK BOV... all the same...

 

if i've misunderstood u aswell sorry, just explain exactly wat it is...

 

Cheers...

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